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- <text>
- <title>
- (Stalin) Interview:Brass v. Steel
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--Stalin Portrait
- </history>
- <link 00040><article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- March 16, 1936
- Brass v. Steel
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p> "Why shouldn't I interview Stalin?" the rich and dapper
- little son of an Ohio railway conductor asked himself recently in
- Paris. Stalin is the son of a blacksmith. In Paris the
- conductor's son grabbed a telephone, called Moscow, asked the
- U.S. Embassy if the blacksmith's son would consent to see him,
- took a train for Moscow.
- </p>
- <p> At friendly William Christian Bullitt's lavish U.S. Embassy,
- good news awaited Roy Wilson Howard, orchidaceous board chairman
- of Scripps-Howard Newspapers. Stalin would see Publisher Howard
- on Sunday and Stalin did, to the sour vexation of Moscow's
- regular correspondents. Cabled the Herald Tribune's Joseph B.
- Phillips: "[The] interview which Joseph V. Stalin gave to Roy W.
- Howard...on Sunday...has just been whipped into shape for
- release by the Commissariat of Foreign Affairs [on Wednesday]."
- </p>
- <p> Nevertheless last week's scoop by Chairman Howard was of the
- first magnitude. After his even more difficult feat three years
- ago in becoming the first journalist received by the Japanese
- Emperor since the accession of His Majesty, Roy Howard had to
- give his word not to quote one word of what the Son-of-Heaven
- said. Last week the Soviet Government not only permitted quotes
- but supplied Mr. Howard with a translation of what Joseph Stalin
- had said in Russian, this interview having been conducted through
- brilliant, saturnine Constantine Umansky as interpreter. For five
- years Comrade Umansky was the Soviet Foreign Office's Chief
- Censor of all news going out of Russia. He leaves Russia this
- week to become counselor of the Soviet Embassy in Washington.
- </p>
- <p> An ace newsman must have the brass to ask what are generally
- called "embarrassing questions." This quality Mr. Howard
- displayed in full measure in his interview with Dictator Stalin,
- whom it is virtually impossible to embarrass. Consequently their
- conversation, even after filtering through the Chief Soviet
- Censor, was a merry din of brass clashing upon steel. (Stalin is
- the Russian word for steel.)
- </p>
- <p> Russia Without Communism. "Admittedly Communism has not been
- achieved in Russia!" cried Brass. "State Socialism has. Have not
- Fascism in Italy and National Socialism in Germany claimed to
- have attained similar results? Have not both been achieved at the
- price of deprivation of personal liberty, sacrificed for the good
- of the State?"
- </p>
- <p> Replied Steel, wholly unembarrassed: "No, Communism has not
- been achieved in the Soviet Union so far. It is not easy. But
- your term 'State Socialism' is not exact. Many people refer to a
- condition as State Socialism when a considerable amount of
- national wealth passes to government ownership, sometimes for
- military advantage, even though the majority of wealth remains in
- private hands.
- </p>
- <p> "The social order which we have built up so far cannot be
- termed State Socialism in this sense. The Soviet system is
- fundamentally Socialistic because there is no private ownership
- of factories, land, banks, railways, mines, etc. Our system--which
- not yet has been quite completed--is Socialistic because
- the foundation of society is common State ownership, ownership by
- the people or ownership by cooperatives and collective farms.
- </p>
- <p> "Italian Fascism or German National Socialism does not have
- anything in common with such a system, because in those countries
- private ownership of industry is not affected. Capitalism in
- those countries still has full effectiveness.
- </p>
- <p> "Under Socialism a certain inequality concerning property
- remains, but there is no more unemployment, exploitation or
- oppression of one nationality by another [in Russia]. Everybody
- is obliged to work and is compensated not according to his needs
- but according to the quantity and quality of the work.
- </p>
- <p> "That is why wages have not been equalized. Only that
- society can be called Communistic in which people are
- compensated, not on the basis of the quantity or quality of the
- work produced, but on the basis of their needs."
- </p>
- <p> Stalin on War. The unembarrassed admission by the No. 1
- Communist of the World that Russia is far from being Communist
- but is instead a land where pay is on a strictly piecework basis
- was perhaps the most significant part of Roy Howard's interview.
- On other points however Brass and Steel clashed far more
- spectacularly.
- </p>
- <p> Brass: Would a Japanese attempt to seize the capital of
- Outer Mongolia make positive action (i.e., war) by the Soviet
- Union necessary?
- </p>
- <p> Steel: Yes.
- </p>
- <p> Brass: Seemingly the entire world today is predicting
- another great war. If it proves inevitable, when, Mr. Stalin, do
- you think it will come?
- </p>
- <p> Steel: It may come very unexpectedly. Nowadays wars are not
- declared. They simply start. However, I feel that the position of
- the friends of peace is improving. They have the advantage of
- being able to work in the open by such instruments as the League
- of Nations with the assistance of powerful public opinion. They
- have tremendous support in the objection to war shared by the
- masses of all nations. There is today no people wanting war.
- </p>
- <p> On the other hand, the proponents of war must work in the
- dark, to their disadvantage. Nevertheless, it is not improbable
- that this very fact may tempt them to an act of desperation. One
- of the newest successes of the friends of peace is ratification
- of the Franco-Soviet mutual assistance pact by the French Chamber
- This pact is a certain obstacle to the enemies of peace.
- </p>
- <p> Brass: Should war come, Mr. Stalin, where is it most likely
- to break out? Where are the war clouds more menacing, in the East
- or in the West?
- </p>
- <p> Steel: For the moment, perhaps, the situation in the Far
- East is more menacing, but the centre of danger may shift to
- Europe. Evidence of this was Herr Hitler's recent interview in a
- Paris paper in which his statement, though pacific in
- terminology, carried with it threats against both France and the
- Soviet Union. It is symptomatic that even when Hitler speaks
- peace he cannot dispense with threats.
- </p>
- <p> Brass: What situation or condition in your opinion, Mr.
- Stalin, furnishes the chief war menace today?
- </p>
- <p> Steel: Capitalism.
- </p>
- <p> Broken Pledges. This pungent answer by the Dictator provoked
- nimble little Capitalist Howard to a veritable war dance of
- questions to which Communist Stalin replied in kind. Object of
- each was to get the better of the other, and in the version made
- official by Censor Umansky it appeared that Stalin won.
- </p>
- <p> Mr. Howard confronted the Dictator with the fact that Soviet
- Russia has violated and continues to violate the solemn promises
- of Soviet Foreign Commissar Maxim Maximovich Litvinoff to
- President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Soviet wits have accurately
- said that the Daughters of the American Revolution probably could
- not be permitted to meet in Moscow if the Litvinoff engagements
- were fulfilled to the letter by the Soviet Government. Mr.
- Howard's point was that they are not fulfilled. Comrade Stalin's
- rebuttal was by implication that it would be absurd for the
- Soviet Union to do what it solemnly promised the U.S. it would do
- in order to get President Roosevelt to recognize Russia.
- </p>
- <p> When Brass clashed out last week with reminders of the
- incontestable violations committed in the presence of Stalin
- himself when overthrow of U.S. Capitalist institutions was urged
- in Moscow by U.S. Communists Browder and Darcy, the reply of
- Steel was for once just a bit embarrassed and evasive.
- </p>
- <p> "I don't recall what Browder and Darcy said," hedged Joseph
- Stalin. "Maybe they said something of that nature--but the
- Soviet people did not found the American Communist Party. The
- American Communist Party was created by Americans."
- </p>
- <p> By this weasel, Steel could be said to have won the match
- from Brass, but it was soon evident that, for all Censor
- Umansky's care, Publisher Howard had got deeply under Soviet
- skins.
- </p>
- <p> Nobody knows better than Comrade Litvinoff that the
- Litvinoff-to-Roosevelt pledges were nothing but a trap to catch
- recognition and that, recognition having been caught, they became
- scraps of paper. When the U.S. Congress ascertained the facts, it
- refused to appropriate the necessary $1,100,000 for U.S. Embassy
- & Consular buildings in the Soviet Union. Today Ambassador
- Bullitt, highly persona grata in Moscow, constitutes almost the
- sole friendly link between Moscow and Washington. Last week
- Comrade Litvinoff, obviously more worried than he cared to admit
- by the attention Mr. Howard had called to the Soviet-U.S.
- situation, bleated in Moscow: "The question of Communist
- propaganda is a stale subject about which there should be no
- further discussion."
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
-